INTERVIEW - "Leftists are often much more dogmatic and exclusionary," says author Rachel Kushner

The new book by American author Rachel Kushner is about an agent who infiltrates a radical environmentalist community in France. She has been hired by a corporation to investigate whether the so-called "Moulinards" are planning terrorist attacks. To her own surprise, Kushner's novel "Lake of Creation" apparently captured the zeitgeist. The 56-year-old's book was a huge success and was even shortlisted for the Booker Prize.

Since "Creation Lake" was published last August, you've been constantly on the road, giving readings around the world. Writing is a solitary craft, but you now lead the life of a touring pop star.

"Lonely" sounds terrible. You're alone when you write, and I love that. I spent months building this parallel world, digging a tunnel deep into the earth from my office. You never know if it will work, but when "Lake of Creation" finally gained momentum, I enjoyed it. I wouldn't have believed a book about anarchists and Neanderthals would become so popular. Now, public relations is part of my job.

"Flamethrower" (2013) is about the radical left in 1970s Italy, while "Lake of Creation" is set among militant eco-activists in France. Why are you fascinated by radical groups?

I was born in 1968. My parents were somewhere between beatniks and hippies. I went to an anti-authoritarian school in Oregon, where everyone could do whatever they wanted. That was great for me, but not so much for others. I simply write about worlds I know—and the book clearly captured the zeitgeist.

To what extent do you think you have hit a nerve of the times with the novel?

In the novel, Bruno says this: "Currently, we're heading toward extinction in a glittering, driverless car, and the question is: How do we get out?" That's our situation. But I don't have a simple answer either.

While reading, I wondered what you actually think about these countercultures. The book contains many mocking remarks and observations about the social experiment of the French eco-activists.

Yes, but one must not forget that they come from Sadie, who infiltrates the group on behalf of a corporation with the ultimate goal of destroying it. She notices how conservative and narrow-minded some of the "alternatives" are, but she also does this to exonerate herself, so she can justify her actions. The spiritual leader of the commune, the hermit Bruno, is her antipode. He doesn't believe that capitalism can be overcome through political action. His thoughts go much further. He ponders the prehistory of humanity and asks himself where evolution took a wrong turn.

You used to compete in illegal, dangerous motorcycle races on salt lakes, which you describe in "Flamethrower" and the essay collection "Hard People" (2021). Is the tough Sadie modeled on you?

Nothing could be more wrong. I never side with authority. At one point in the book, Sadie brags that she doesn't take out her trash because she never goes back to the same place twice anyway. But to me, life has meaning because everything I do matters. Otherwise, why would we even exist?

Which character in the book do you feel closest to?

They all have something to do with me, insofar as I created them. But Bruno is the closest to me. It's a paradox: Sadie moves among all these people, but she's lonely. No one knows her, not even Lucien, with whom she begins a relationship to gain entry into the commune. Bruno, on the other hand, lives alone underground, but feels connected to everyone from the past and the future.

Would it be an overinterpretation to say that the encounter between the American agent and the French rural commune is also about a confrontation between the USA and Europe?

It's about divisions that are emerging within Europe and America as well. I could have written the book from the perspective of an American like me, who is sympathetic to these alternative movements. Then it would have become a story of disillusionment, and I didn't want that. Most novels develop from innocence to experience. I wanted to try the opposite. At the beginning, Sadie embodies American, hyper-individualistic brutality. She says, "I miss our passion for violence, stupidity, and freedom."

And then, under Bruno's influence, their perspective becomes increasingly planetary, even cosmic.

Exactly. But I don't want to demonize America, as Europeans sometimes do. The mix of all these different people and the cult of unbridled autonomy have led to a fascinating culture. Just think of African-American innovations like jazz or hip-hop – dangerous and vibrant. That's the liberal spirit of "every man for himself." The French have clearer ideas about how one should behave and integrate into the community.

When you thought of the nihilistic, selfish Sadie, did you also think of Trump and his ilk?

No. Trump sees himself as king of the jungle and a god. Everything revolves around himself. If he can't get something, then no one else should either. Sadie, on the other hand, doesn't even have an identity. She's more of a James Bond type. She takes all the liberties, does her job, and disappears. I have no theory about what's happening in the US right now, and luckily, I don't need to. I sit in my cave, observe, and turn it into fiction.

But “Lake of Creation” is about extreme perspectives on our society, so one cannot avoid reading it against the backdrop of current polarization.

I wrote the novel before Trump was elected. But one of the fascinating things about literature is that it sometimes comes true. Some writers, like Don DeLillo, are prophetic. But I didn't see the alliance between Silicon Valley technocrats and neo-fascists coming. The metaphor of the driverless car proved more true than I anticipated.

One thinks of a self-driving Tesla and Elon Musk. But there were other anticipations as well.

Yes, I had finished the first draft of the book in 2022, when the grassroots movement Soulèvement de l'air was causing a sensation in France, with clear parallels to the Moulinards in "Lake of Creation." Shortly thereafter, Macron tried to visit an agricultural fair, and the farmers blocked the road with hay bales, which they set on fire. Perhaps it's a coincidence, but I had to laugh. As if they had been following my script!

In the book, Sadie once says, "What naked, lonely self do people encounter at four in the morning? What do they find there? No politics. There is no politics in people." Is politics merely a surface phenomenon?

Perhaps deep down we have an idea of ​​right and wrong, of politics in the broadest sense, that is, how society should be organized. But certainly not party politics, which has much to do with social identity: I am this type, I wear these clothes, listen to this radio station, drive this brand of car, recycle my waste or not. In this way, we signal to others and to ourselves a coherent personality and a consistent lifestyle. This makes us feel real, even when we're alone. But not when we wake up confused in the middle of the night. Then everything is much darker.

And behavior does not always correspond to ideology.

Exactly. There are the left-wing radicals who suddenly join the army. And then you ask yourself: What exactly was the purpose of their demonstrative commitment? Conversely, there are many Trump voters who are warm and open, with a folksy Christian neighborliness. If you're thirsty, they'll give you something to drink. While the left is often much more dogmatic and exclusionary.

There's this funny tractor-pulling scene in Schaffhausen in the book. It also shows such a clash – between the grumpy activists from Zurich, who take themselves very seriously and want to sabotage the giant tractors but have no idea how, and the likeable, happy farmers.

I sometimes go to Zurich for book events. It was fun to contrast the people of this clean, middle-class, discreet, and expensive city with the popular spectacle, with all the dirt, noise, and smelly smoke.

"Lake of Creation" is a dramatic book about the future of humanity, featuring a cynical, ruthless protagonist and an idealistic commune doomed to extinction. Yet, the book is still a pleasure to read, even a joy.

This reflects the joy I felt while writing. Yes, it's a contradiction. I'm a happy person, I consider life a blessing. But I don't know how to reconcile that with the technological destruction of our world that's advancing around us by the second.

Rachel Kushner: The Lake of Creation. Translated from the American by Bettina Abarbanell. Rowohlt, Hamburg 2025. 480 pp., Fr. 36.90.

Rachel Kushner will read from her novel on May 4 at 8 p.m. at the Kaufleuten in Zurich.